Tuesday, November 29, 2005

While we're on the subject of Partition...

As I mentioned in my previous post, 58 years ago today, the United Nations passed the partition Plan, which led, in part, to the establishment of the Jewish State of Israel.

It is important to remember that the Arabs rejected the Partition Plan - which would have given them a Palestinian State west of the Jordan, opting instead to try and wipe out the fledgling Jewish State, and take the entire Land of Israel for themselves. In order to accomplish this, 7 armies marched against Israel, and miraculously, the newborn State was able to hold its own.

In 1967, before there were ever any "Occupied Territories" - which at the time were under the control of Egypt and Jordan respectively, 5 Arab armies sought to once again wipe the Jewish State of Israel off the map, and drive the Jews into the sea.

Clearly, the motivation for the Arabs to launch wars against the Jewish State of Israel in 1948 and 1967 could not have been in order to liberate the "Occupied Territories", as there were none - unless, in the eyes of the Arab world, a Jewish State anywhere in the Middle East must be destroyed.

As such, it is ironic, that today - the day that marks the passing of the Partition Plan, as well as its rejection by the Arabs, that Ariel Sharon's Kadima party publicized its platform, which includes (Courtesy of Arutz - 7):

* The establishment of a Palestinian State in Judea, Samaria and Gaza.

* The Palestinian State would be demilitarized and clean of terrorism.

I don't know which of these two positions is more absurd:

1) As history has shown on numerous occasions, the desire of the Arabs to wipe the Jewish State off the face of the earth has nothing to do with the supposed "occupation" of Judea, Samaria and Gaza.

To believe that the creation of such a state would lead to peace with Israel, or at the very least, a more secure Israel is a fantasy.

2) Why would any sane person believe that a Palestinian State would be demilitarized? Time and again the "Palestinians" have signed agreements in which they obligated themselves to limit the amount and types of weapons that they would be allowed to possess, and they have broken every single agreement. (Not to mention all of their empty agreements to eliminate terror and incitement against the Jewish State which continues around the clock).

Furthermore, how on earth would this be enforced? Will the "Government of Palestine" allow Israel to come in and check to make sure they aren’t secretly building an army to be used against Israel?

It is evident, that not only is the Bible and Jewish history irrelevant to Ariel Sharon, but the history of Modern Israel, as well.


In the event (not so unlikely) that this happens, why would you put Israel in the role the role of "enforcer"?

The whole point is that it categorically should NOT be our responsibility to be enforcing anything on the Palestinians once they have their own state. We can build up our forces to protect ourselves from attack, sure. But we, the Jewish people, should not be ruling over another nation (especially one that historically dislikes us) when we ourselves are in such a fragile state.

By Anonymous PP, at Tue Nov 29, 11:39:00 PM GMT+2  

hey ze'ev, something is/was wrong with the "comment" link on your homepage.

Everytime I clicked on it, it would send me to the "email this post to a friend" link... anyway, just thought you might want to know.

By Blogger Tovya @ Zion Report, at Wed Nov 30, 02:16:00 AM GMT+2  

Hello. I appreciate your sincerity and the aims of your site. I think PP makes a very good point and I've just browsed zion report and therefore have some idea as to how my views may be received. Nonetheless, in all honesty, I have a number of contrary views to offer up in response to your post. I've done my share of reading and some talking also and I will continue to inquire but nonetheless, here are some counter-views that I believe can be backed up in most cases with evidence and good interpretations:

-the Palestinians were right to reject having their land partitioned away from them. Who would agree to that? It was their land (the "Palestinians", of course, including various peoples from various ethnic backgrounds and with various histories in and around the region). An agreement drafted by European powers on how to divide Palestine, therefore, is null and void. (Meaning, talking about rights is one thing. Talking about power another thing entirely.)

-the Palestinians did not try and take the entire land for themselves - the entire land was already theirs by the sheer fact of their actually living on the land. The attempt to change this reality (Zionism) was the real act of violence (even when the violence was administrative or political).

-the events of 1948 were not miraculous. They were a deliberate, well executed, colonialist seizure of an indigenous populations land.

(Regarding the above (and below also), here is one critical look at such events and I realize there are other interpretations more amenable to a Zionist viewpoint. It is a lengthy, meticulously referenced piece yet it is still an interpretation of events and you no doubt have heard of the author.: "An Introduction to the Israel-Palestine Conflict"

-Your comments on 1967 are not how I've come to understand matters. Many, including the U.S.'s CIA knew that Israel had the military strength to withstand a three front war with the Arabs and defeat them all. They were militarily strong and had no need to fear the Arab's and their posturing.

(See, "CIA Analysis of the 1967 Arab-Israeli War"

-in the eyes of many, including Israeli's and former Israeli's, the idea of a Jewish State (i.e., Zionism) is the idea of racism, colonialism and unprogressive social laws regarding non-Jews. It is this evolving character of the Jewish State and how it runs counter to the humanistic and progressive views of the liberal democracies (themselves being severely challenged at present) that causes many to seriously question the practical consequences of Zionism.

(See "Making the Inconceivable Obvious - Israeli Power, Palestinian Survival" - http://www.willtotruth.com/?p=151 - especially the quotes at the end of this short article)

I agree with your claim that Kadima's positions involve absurdities:

There should be one state of mixed ethnicity whose political nature is determined by all members and not a one state apartheid system where one "race" determines the fate of another.

Alternatively, in a two state system, it is absurd to expect that an independent Palestinian State not have a military. A military is an important defining characteristic of a state and without it the Palestinians would always be at the mercy of the massive Israeli military. Given such a circumstance the Palestinians could not possibly hope to forge an independent nation. Many, however, understand this and are ok with it.

Further, don't worry, Ariel Sharon has every intention of continuing to subjugate the Palestinians until he himself dies. This is his personal mission statement. Consider his own words and thoughts about the Arabs and the Palestinians. (See "Palestine should be 'wiped off the map'. Did anyone react?" scroll down a bit http://sabbah.biz/mt/archives/2005/11/01/palestine-should-be-wiped-off-the-map-did-anyone-react/). This whole move to the centre is a ruse to continue with his work of systematically making it impossible for there to be a viable, independent Palestinian state.
(See "Peace is not Shalom and Shalom is not Sharon" http://www.gilad.co.uk/html%20files/hebrewlesson.html)

By Blogger willtotruth, at Wed Nov 30, 04:18:00 AM GMT+2  

So, PP, if I understand you correctly, you would allow this "Palestinian State" to build up an army - even though it had agreedn ,in priciniple, to be demilitarized - which would only be used to try and wipe us off the map - but better that we shouldn't be accused of ruling over another "people - especially one that doesn't like us.

I can see it now: After this new Palestinian State would join together with the other Arab armies of the world and wipes israel off the map - Heven Forbid - the NY Times will run a beautifully written front page obituary for Israel stating that she was wiped out in the quest for peace... How touching -and absurd...

By Blogger Ze'ev, at Wed Nov 30, 08:30:00 AM GMT+2  

Will... Thanks for the lengthy and well presented comment. Granted, I don't agree with much (if any of what you say), but I am always up for a good debate...

1) You say that the Arabs were right to reject Partition, b/c the entire Land was their's already? By whose account?

Never, since the Jews were forcibly exiled (or in modern parlance, disnegaged from their land by the Roamns) - and independant State / capitol never existed in the area.

Up until the establishment of the State of Israel, the indigenous population refered to themselves as southern Syrian,s not as "Palestinians". The term "Palestinian" was an invented term, conjured up by the Roamns, in order to try and remove any connection of the Jewish people to the Land of Israel - very much what the modern day "Palestinians" seek to accomplish as well.

If the Romans would have left the name of the State of Israel unchanged - Judea, at the time, Israel would currently be in a war against Judeans!!!

Why is it, that between the years 1948 - 1967, when the land that is currently referred to as the "Occupied territories" belonging to the "Palestinians - why was there no Palestinian State established by Egypt and Jordan in those lands? Why was there ever no call for the establishment of one?

Why is it that the PLO was only established in 1964, before there were ever any "territories", and wholse sole aim was to wipe the Jewish State of Israel off the map?

If you will argue that the whole idea of partition is null and void, as it was drafted by Eurpean powers than virtually every Arab state in the region is equally null and void (a partial list includes: Jordan, Lebanon, Syria, Suadi Arabia...) which were all created by European political power brokers carving up the region...

Furthermore, prior to the establishment of the State of Israel ,was there ever a "Palestinian" language, culture, history, dialect, currency... anything that would point to their being a distinct entity in the land?

You say that Zionism is colonialism - but that neglects 2,000 years of a direct connection of the Jewish People ot the Land of Israel from which they were forcibly removed, and who never gave up their right to return to the Land. This does not include the continuous presence of Jews in the Land from the Exile 2,000 years ago until the re-establishment of the State of Israel...

As far as 1967 goes, when Nasser closer the Straits of Tiran, he was trying to strangle Israel's economy and viability. When he put Israel on war footing for weeks on end, forcing it to call up its reserve soldiers - knowing full well that Israel could not continue functioning when all of its men would be enlisted i nthe army, he was trying to cripple Israel...

Regardless of the strength of Israel's armed forces, the goal of the Arab armies was the destruction of the Jewish State of Israel - as it was in the Yom Kippur war, and as is the case today - Thank G-d that, even if as you say is true, that the Arabs haven't had their military ability match their desires and intentions, b/c on the day it does, there will no longer be an Israel.

You are correct in your assesement that the idea of a Jewish State does not fit in well in a world based on progressive, liberal, secular democracies... but does that mean that the Jewish people have less of a right to a State of their own, in their Homeland b/c of it? The right of the Jewish people to a Jewish State in the Land of Israel doe not come from the UN, or the US, or the EU, it comes from G-d and the Bible - and without that - we have no right whatsoever to be here...

There has never been a shortage of self-hating Jews or anti-Semites who are not prepared to grant to the Jews what they are willing to granto t anyone else... that does not make them right.

By your logic, the Holocaust must have been acceptable, as just about everyone in the world had no problem with what Hitler was trying to do! There are objective rights and wrongs, regardless of what the world may think, do, or say.

You are right, though, that if Israel is to strive to no longer be a Jewish State, then there is no reason why it shouldn't form a single state, with the Arabs, whereby majority will rule...

As for Sharon - I disagree with your assesement - I do beleive he is prepared to bulldoze the Jewish State into the ground...

Thanks again for the comment.

By Blogger Ze'ev, at Wed Nov 30, 09:03:00 AM GMT+2  

PP, another question: Who would you put in the role of enforcer? The EU? The UN? The Quartet?

Would you really be able to sleep at night knowing that they were the ones responsible for ensuring our security?

By Blogger Ze'ev, at Wed Nov 30, 11:19:00 AM GMT+2  

Sorry, Zeev, but you are taking what I said to extremes.

Enabling the Palestinians a state is not the death knell for Israel. I know you and many other people might prefer to believe otherwise, so I am not about to try and convince you.

I never said we aren't entitled to defend our own borders and build up our own army- how can we not, when we are surrounded by such hostility?! If there needs to be an independent enforcer until both sides can get their crap together (however many decades that takes) then so be it. That is the proven solution around the rest of the world in other areas of dispute where indigenous populations despise each other and desire each other's territory. I'd probably sleep better. Do you sleep well at night right now, in view of our undefined and insecure borders and the danger that our army and citizens are in as a result?

By Anonymous PP, at Wed Nov 30, 11:41:00 AM GMT+2  

PP, again, my question to you stands:

Who would this independant enforcer, of which you speak, be?

Who could we trust to not turn a blind eye to "Palestinian" violations that would threaten the security of the Jewish State of Israel?

The US, EU, UN, Quartet and virtually every other international body / forum have proven themselves to be sell-outs...

And, no, I do not sleep well at night these days (my daughter's crying aside).

I see the State of Israel readying itself to destroy more Jewish communties i nthe Land of Israel, preparing to expel tens of thousands of Jews from their homes, unwilling to accept that we are at war with the "Palestinians" and the Arab world, and as such, unwilling ot take the measures needed to ensure that The jewish State and its citizens can live in true peace.

I worry that every single day the State of Israel is becoming less-Jewish (not to mention democratic), and secular Zionism has turned into post-Zionism, and it is on these empty values that the current and future generations are being raised...

I worry that everyday there are fewer Jews remaining i nthe world, in particular in America, and yet, for the majority of American jewry, they would sooner assimilate than call Israel their home. I worry that there are too many Jews in America who consider themsleves to be Americans 1st, and who openly lobby the Government of the US in the name of American Jewry to take steps that threaten the securrity of the Jewish State of Israel...

For all that and more I worry... and I try to bring awareness to these issues and more on this blog, in the hopes that perhaps some people will wake up...

Yet, I am hopeful as well...

I do know, that at the end of the day, the Jewish People and State will overcome and outlast our enemies - both those from within and those from without - I am hopeful that my daughter will live to see this day, and if not her, then her children. This is where the destiny of the Jewish People will play itself out, and that is why I am here, fulfilling my obligation to the G-d of Israel, the People of Israel and the Torah of Israel...

Yihiyeh b'seder...

By Blogger Ze'ev, at Wed Nov 30, 11:52:00 AM GMT+2  

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